Staying Positive Amid COVID Fatigue (Ep. 127)

Josh Peach  
Welcome to the Operate Intelligently Podcast, the podcast for all things operations.

Hello Operate Intelligently listeners. This is your host, Joshua Peach for Episode 127, and I apologize for the bit of the hiatus that we've had here. It's been upwards of a month since the last podcast episode was recorded and there are a couple reasons for that. One was that it was really hard with the reopening of schools and a lot of things that are going on with our typical guests that they were they were knee-deep in the work and didn't have the opportunity to come on and share some stories with us. And it was just been a little bit overwhelming trying to get folks coming on board. And I know nobody wants to listen to me just rambling by myself. So we took a little bit of a break, kind of started to retool and we're trying to figure out some next steps. And I had a magnificent email that came about a week and a half ago from our guest today, which I have a feeling she is going to be on for a number of episodes for the foreseeable future because she just has an amazing number of hot topics to talk about and as a true professional in the industry, and I think just in life in general, you think you're going to really like her. So first and foremost, Mary Beth Ormiston, welcome to the Operate Intelligently Podcast.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Thank you. I'm just glad to be here to chat with you today.

Josh Peach  
Yes. Is this your first podcast?

Mary Beth Ormiston  
No, I've done several before, but like you I've kind of been on vacation for a while.

Josh Peach  
Yeah, yeah. Well, we were delayed for a little bit, because you had some painting going on and had some Wi Fi and, you know, so welcome. By the way, the paint looks fantastic. Space looks great. Congratulations. So, just for, and I actually think you were on an Operate Intelligently podcast were you not, before I was hosting? 

Mary Beth Ormiston  
I have been. 

Josh Peach  
Okay, so it was a while ago. So just for our new listeners, tell us a little bit about yourself, where have you been? What do you do? And what are you doing today?

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Well, I've been I was connected for a number of ye ars with the YMCA. I have spent a number of years with Dude Solutions doing a lot of fun stuff. And now since we've had COVID, I've been working at home, I kind of like to think that I tried to keep to be a connector. So during all of this time, and even before I like to connect with people doing a variety of different things, whether it's risk management, or whether it's some product endorsement, you know, Josh, or just even chit chatting. Finding out what's going on with people, you know, what makes us tick at this point in time and what's different. So I've been trying to stay as active as I can. But I will tell you, I am getting a little bit tired of Zoom calls, I have to admit that, you know. They're good for a while, but I really would like to reach out and touch somebody. I really would like to give somebody a hug because that's who I am. But I've really been working to try to embrace the best I can what's going on. But I gotta tell you some days I do this better than others. And some days, I just fail completely. And feel like I just want to go back to bed and throw the covers over my head. But sun's out, and I'm doing good today. And I think that every day that I can get up and find something that's viable to do. But if I ever say to you, again, I want to paint my house, I want you to commit me, I want you to tell me to stop. I do not want to do this again. But I did it. It's all good. And so now today I'm back interacting with a variety of people. They may be from Dude Solutions, they may be from the YMCA, all kinds of venues and trying to support and learn and adapt to perhaps what's going on out there. So that's kind of what I've been doing, Josh, how about you?

Josh Peach  
You mentioned a couple of times the YMCA and you and I have spoken and I'm a huge advocate for the YMCA. I actually serve on a board of governors up here in Massachusetts, you serve on a board of governors, I think you serve on a board of governors in North Carolina. And the work that you did with it was the redwoods group that you were originally with and how we got connected all those years ago. You know, it's interesting, you know, I think that's something I'd like to talk about for a few minutes that I think that people probably don't have an understanding and a handle on out there right now is how hard the YMCAs have been hit from COVID and they're really an organization that they're designed to help you know. When this this whole thing started. I know the ones up here you know they were opening up they were taking donations. They were providing meals, they were providing safe space for people that needed a place to take a shower and get ready for work. You know, helping, you know, right now they're helping with parents that have kids with remote learning by providing a space for the kids to go that are supervised, where they can't go to school. But you know, they they require a lot of financial support from, from generous donors and from all sorts of different avenues. And they're getting hit pretty hard this year. And, and yet, they're still the ones that I talked to, I have unbelievable optimism. And they still get up every day. And they're still working just as hard. And it doesn't matter how difficult a time they're having they're still trying to keep that unbelievable optimism and positive mindset for not just for them, but for the communities that they support. Is that kind of what you're hearing from a lot of, you know, you're in it with all your talk to all of them. I think everybody knows you in the country at the Y level.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
I don't know, but I'm in deep with the Y's obviously. Yes, the Y's financially have been severely handicapped. I was online with a Y today that they're losing $50 million this year. But you know, whether it's $50 million, or whether it's $10 million, it's all relative, because the product for YMCAs are the people, you know. We can go someplace else, and the product might be widgets, but the YMCA, the you know, the product happens to be people. And they're integral part of the community. So here we are, we're locked down, we've been locked down for a while. Kids, some kids are going to school, other kids aren't. Parents need childcare, everything is in flux. And the YMCA is working so hard to try to meet not only community needs, providing food, perhaps providing childcare, and not actually knowing day to day, what the arena what the platform is going to look like. Many of the Ys, I'm going to give you just an example Josh, you know, have had to terminate/layoff/furlough, whatever the terms, you want to use, probably close to either two-thirds to three-fourths of their staff, however, that fraction works out. And they are trying to operate much smaller, a much smaller footprint, but they're still trying to serve as many people as they can. On top of that, you know, they are a cost driven organization, which does mean that a substantial amount of money comes through the generous donations of people like us, or corporations. Unfortunately, we have a sector out there that might not be working, we have corporations that may only be functioning at a partial fraction of what they are. But then we have others that are doing just fine. So the Ys are digging in the trenches, they're trying to provide the service that is most important for our communities. And I think more than ever, YMCAs are vitally important to our communities. I mean, you can go back to the YMCA silver is 175 plus years old. Now that goes back a heck of a long time. And we have provided service through World War Two to all kinds of events that we never want to see again, and the YMCA has survived. So I think that will survive again, but will look different, but our communities are going to look different, we're going to look different. But some Ys won't make it, that's the unfortunate part. Some just won't be able to do it financially. We know those that are larger Ys will have to shut down perhaps branches and do things differently, and maybe some will be selling their assets. I was talking to a Y again today that was selling one of their buildings because they have to reduce their expenses. So they're making, you know, tough decisions. And even you know, as I tell one important fact, Josh and you know this too. But even though YMCAs are cost driven, and you know they are a not for profit, but they're also a business. They also have to have income over expense, because that's the only way they keep the doors open to help our community. My biggest concern and my conversations have to do with it with kids and families. They've been you know, as we talked about lockdown, their not only their physical health, their emotional health, and their social health. You know, we are social people. Kids are social people. And you know, I look at myself I live with five cats and four walls, now if that doesn't make you crazy I don't know what else will. And so you take a look at a common family like that you have you have kids, you're in our homes, we're working, some are doing school, virtually. Some are going to school, some are doing a whole variety. And how is it at the end of the day we keep our sanity? And how is it that we stay, you know? How are you viable? Maybe that's the word I want to use, how is it that we stay viable and able to get up the next day? You know, we call that COVID fatigue. And that hits a lot of people a lot of different ways.

Josh Peach  
Yeah, and it's the people that you and I get to talk to every day, that's probably getting hit the hardest and showing the least, because they have to do all of these things. And they have to keep a positive outlook and vision, whether it's facility director in a public K-12 school, an operations professional in a manufacturing facility that you know, was shut down for two months, and is just trying to play catch up. You know, it's interesting that people you know, try and understand why things are back ordered and so hard to find, well, you know, manufacturing facility that closes for a day will be backlogged. I told the story, I think I've told him on this podcast, really interesting. Flight from Madison, Wisconsin, home and I pitstop in Charlotte and I met a gentleman on the plane from Madison to Charlotte, that was going for a job interview in North Carolina for a operations position for a manufacturer of lawnmower blades. And so we were talking and I said, well, how many lawnmower blades do you make? You know, how often does one get pressed, he said, every second of every minute of every hour of every day, there is a lawnmower blade being pressed. So every minute is represents at least 60, lawnmower blades. So when you think about that, and you go and extrapolate that to a couple of months that they were probably closed for, they're way behind. They're you know, the playing catch up for that is very hard. So the stress level of that it's going to be hard. And then he's talking about the health care providers that have that have just, you know just the strain and the stress of everything that goes with that. But they haven't had a chance to stop and breathe. And that's kind of where you and I talk to these folks. And I always say I say to them, often people that I talked to him like I don't know how you do it. You just amaze me. I did a keynote last week or two weeks ago, and for facility operations professionals in Texas and their executive director afterwards said, you know, how do you keep such a positive mindset? And I said, it's your members, it's you guys. I mean, the fact that you guys do what you do every day, and you're still putting pants on one leg at a time and going and doing what you're doing, it inspires and motivates me. What I have to do is nothing compared to what you have to do. But you're absolutely right, this that COVID fatigue it hits everyone. It's not just the disease. It's the life that we're the lives that we're living. And the fact that as you said, before we started which is this whole new normal. There's no such thing as a new normal, there's no such and this better not be the new normal, if we have to go like this forever. I mean, think about our friends in Australia, they just got done with 111 day lockdown. Like I don't want to be in that, I don't want that to be a new normal for us. I don't want that to be a possibility or probability. I want us to go back to being able to, you know, hug family members and not worry about it and send you know, invitations for parties and hug loved ones and all that fun stuff. So that's kind of where I'd like to see us going in the direction for just a different normal or a I don't even know what the word is. I'm just tired of the new normal moniker.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Yeah. You know, Josh, one of the things that I've had some interesting conversations with, because I think what we're going through is very similar to a lot of the steps of when you grieve, because we have been grieving. We've been grieving for what we've had. And when you don't have clear steps as to what the future is going to look like, not that we ever knew really what the future was gonna look like. But we had more control, we had control as to what it is we could do in our families, our work and our environment. Now, we don't feel like we have control. And you know, for me, that was a really hard emotion for me to get around. Because I like to think I'm always in control of everything. And now I'm in control of absolutely nothing. You know, I told you have five cats. It is truly like herding cats right now. Yeah, because life goes every which way and, and we're trying, I hear people, they're trying to get framed some way so they have a little bit of boundaries. You know, we all like to have a little bit of discipline, a little bit of boundaries because it makes us feel a little bit better. And so I hear people trying to kind of grasp onto that, whether it's in the work environment, you know, again, what are the basic things that we can do? How is it that we can get started? You know, I also hear people talking about the hardest thing to do in our environment is taking that first step. It's like it, you know, and I sit back, and I think, and I think, Wow, is that you know, and I think, yeah, they're probably right. First of all, trying to figure out, you know, what it is we want to do or function? And then how do you take that first step?

Josh Peach  
Well, fear sets in.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Absolutely. Absolutely. And fear sets in when we don't know what's coming. And it's hard to plan for the unknown.

Josh Peach  
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, what's interesting, and I've had this conversation with a number of people is you're spot on with, you know, the frustrations of things that are out of our control. And the things that are out of our control are, first and foremost, obviously, this virus. Secondly, which the second is, is it, which is a close second, or in many cases, first for people is, the regulations being imposed, the government telling you what you can and cannot do, and how you can and cannot do it. And I try to tell people, you know, that's all stuff, that's being put to you. But if you look at your life, 90 plus percent of your life before COVID was out of your control, and you handled it just fine. The difference is that someone's telling you that your life is out of control and here's what has to be done, to try to get some form of normalcy or control back. And I think that's the part that people struggle with. And the other thing that people struggle with is I don't think people know what to be mad at, or what people need to be frustrated with. And I and I give this example, countless times, I'm just, I've pushed back, the only the only social media I'm really doing is LinkedIn, I've pushed away from from Facebook and Instagram for some time and Twitter, and I'm going to get back into to posting and doing things on there. But it was, it's so hurtful and harmful for me, to see what people are saying, and when they're talking about things related to COVID. And what I try to say to people is, I'm not a psychologist, I don't know all the answers. But what I would suspect is the people that are fighting for you to follow the rules and guidelines, the majority of them, probably don't have the ability to be at home with their kids, or to be at home away from their job, without running the risk of losing everything. There are there were 10s of millions of people that have been unemployed over the course of the last eight months, there are a lot there are just as many that are living paycheck to paycheck. And there's millions of parents that want to do the right thing and want to do the absolute best for their children. But they can only do that if the kids are at school every day. And so when they're fighting to tell you, hey, play by the rules, do all the things to curb to kill the curve or flatten the curve or do something to the curve to get this thing manageable. So that we can do things. They're not saying it because of fear of the virus as much as there probably is fear of their life, outside of that, and to put all of that into perspective, because I see a lot of people that post things and have parties and do all this stuff. And you know, what if the world closed tomorrow, they can survive at home for a long time without having anything to worry about. But a lot of people can. And that's the one thing that we have to really make sure that we're pushing, which is compassion for for humans, not just for our own wellbeing but as a whole. And that's something I've just seen a lot of causes, it causes me COVID fatigue, it caused me, you know, just exhaustion of saying what do I how do I say this? Or what do I say? And I'm just now starting to kind of realize it and think I might be a little bit right with my thinking.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Yeah, I think you are Josh because we get so insular. And when we become insular, we just think about us because it impacts us. But we don't necessarily think about how does it impact my neighbor, my friend or relative or whatever. We might give it some thought but you know, this is all about me. And that becomes that's a problem that's problematic. And it comes so insular, that everything is about me. The other point I was going to say to you that you were just hinting about is this whole idea of that we react instead of respond.

Josh Peach  
100%

Mary Beth Ormiston  
And that's huge. Because what we don't like we react, you know, it's immediate, because, you know, we're so tied up in ourselves. We're so insular. And you know, if we can find ways to just kind of let that go, if we can find ways that you know, we don't have to be ugly. We don't have to be unkind. Those are pretty much conscientious. Those are things that we can control. We don't have to be unkind, we don't have to say these terrible things that that I hear out there, and that we see and that we read. We can be kind and still function in this, you know, fishbowl that we're in that's the water splashing out because we don't know what's going on. But you know, the other side of this is that it has pulled us out of out of being complacent. It has absolutely jolted us to the core, though I am very concerned about those that don't have jobs, and those that don't have the ability to maneuver through this unknown. And that's where I think not only the wise, but you and me and others can step to the forefront and be able to, to assist what's going on. And so I you know, as I talk to people and, and lock in, I'm not the only one that thinks that. But perhaps if we could just step out that front door a little bit more. And I use that metaphorically, if we can just step out of ourselves and really think about, what can I give somebody else that might be helpful to help us with this COVID fatigue, which is not about the disease, it's about emotions, it's about what our heads are doing. It's about how we function on a daily basis.

Josh Peach  
Well, it's political fatigue, and this is being recorded on Election Day. So hopefully, a little bit of that kindness is going to come back once this is all said and done, one can hope you hit a couple of things. And one thing I want to go back to when we were talking about the why. And this is something that I think is really exciting and it ties with your complacency that comment the last eight months and and some and not not just it's not just a unique case. And in many cases, and the people that I talked to and work with, I see that they're taking the challenges as opportunities, and those opportunities that otherwise they would have had complacency. And one of the things that I'm really excited to see is, you know, for instance, for the Y when you talk about it's a cause driven organization, you know, forever, you know, they typically had one or two, maybe three fundraisers that raised a whole bunch of money. And what our Y that I'm that I'm on the Board of Governors for we all the Board of Governors were asked to commit to doing a spin-a-thon, and we're going to do a spin-a-thon and a brewery, and I said that I would put the name of every person on the back of my shirt. So when I had a heart attack on the bicycle while drinking a beer that that that the hospital would know all the people that had me do this dumb idea. And we were actually supposed to pedal on March 14, we're supposed to have this spin-a-thon on March 14. We raised a whole bunch of money. We did a great job. And then why did a great job. And we had to cancel it. And it was nice because the people didn't ask for their money back. They understood and they appreciate this is early on. This was before all the stuff. But what happened in the following eight months was some real creative ideas to do a virtual trivia night and do a virtual gala that we're having this Friday night hosted by a local radio host with you know, it's a free admission, with celebrities and everything else on a zoom call, which we all hate but but live auctions and fun stuff. This is giving an opportunity for us to cast a wider net to reach out and talk to people. You know, I've talked to so many associations and organizations that say, you know, we had this virtual event and we would have never had half of these people because they couldn't afford to travel to this and they couldn't drop. And they're providing that professional development and in the landscape of professional development. I don't see hybrid or half virtual events going away anytime soon. And I've seen from facilities of some of the facilities guests and some of the things it's not just our software, they're leveraging Skype, and they're leveraging Zoom and all of these other new these new tools for signing contracts and doing inspections and being able to remotely work and implementing different technologies to help them with social distancing. And just a ton of different things that we wouldn't have seen if to 2020 was like 2019, because you're absolutely right. I think there was definitely across the board a certain level of complacency with all of us, and I think you're probably seeing the same thing.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Oh, you're absolutely right. Just think about us going into Dude Solutions. You know, we have learned to work from home. We don't necessarily have to work from a separate location where we drive. I was just kind of played around the other day and I was thinking about not only the time that I've saved by not being on the road doing a variety of different projects and work, but also the gas I've saved. And so I said to myself, are you less effective? No, I don't think so in some cases, I think I'm more effective, because I've put more time back into my day to do a variety of different things. And I've learned how to do some things differently. You know, my biggest challenge one of mine is technology, I always laugh at that, you know, I've learned to turn the computer on and off. So here I am doing a podcast with you having to use new technology and having helped me I don't know what tomorrow will bring the big bring some new platform that I'm going to have to learn. I never would have stepped out, give some of that. So I think that creativity, and the ability for all of us to be individual entrepreneurs, is a real plus. You know, we have the opportunity to do things we never thought of, or never thought we could do. And I really think that that's exciting. But you know, that's my personality, I like change to a certain degree. And I like challenges. And so now I can, you know, it's really great, I can do all my work and take a break and put my laundry in the dryer, for instance, you know, and I still have my office, and I'm still getting stuff done. But you know that the way we worked or the way we live before, is affording us new opportunities, if we want to take them to do things differently, that may be very positive. Not everything is negative of what we're going through, you know, take away the virus, and the sickness, there are some things that will be positive. And as you said, we won't go back to. Unfortunately, I think we're going to have a lot of office space that's open. Well, we'll figure out how to deal with that. I'm sure there's, you know, smarter people out there than me that will figure out how that space can be used or not. But we're still going to be profitable, and be able to function in these new environments that are allowing us to have flexibility of how we function in a day. See, that's what I think, you know, having to go to a building day after day after day isn't really flexible is it?

Josh Peach  
No, no.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
So now we have some creativity, perhaps for those that function better that way. And for some of us that function, you know, in between, I think that's great. I think that's all good.

Josh Peach  
Yeah, well, I mean, it's helping us. You know, I think that the you know, it's funny, we talk about work environments, and, you know, in our workspace, in our office, you know, we were large space with with a lot of employees. And, you know, I think that there was I think this is across the board, I think somewhere in in, and I'm not that smart, but somewhere in business, someone said you have to have workspaces where everybody gets together and work because, gosh, darn it, that's what they have to do. And when someone forgot that we're adults, and we have to be responsible, and we have to be held accountable. And we have to have responsibility in life. And I think that there are many people that don't have the capability because of their, where they live, whether it's a, you know, small space with with, you know, many people or some other reason that do need an office, but I think the majority of us do a pretty good job of working remotely and accomplishing great, great amounts of work. So you know, repurposing office space for condos, or apartments or, or shared up here, there's a ton of shared office spaces where you're paying a fractional ownership basically have a space and you schedule that space so that you have, you know, an office when you need it, or need to have a virtual, you know, a Zoom meeting in a conference room or what have you. But there are there's going to be a lot of new, there's gonna be a lot of new ideas and new opportunity, that otherwise we would have just continued to build office buildings. Yeah, I think we're doing too much building anyway, I know, we talked about, you know, the gas that you saved. You know, I've pondered the most ridiculous thoughts through through this COVID because I went through life and I never really paid attention to the things that I did, the things that I bought, or the impact that it had. And where I traveled 150 days a year, and I was looking at our one of our cars is almost 100,000 miles and it's, you know, I think 15.9 miles average per gallon. So how many gallons of gas did I go through to get to 100,000? It's like, well, I got I went through 60,00 gallons of gasoline in this one car that I used, and then I said, Well, when I was traveling, I would have a couple cups of coffee in a couple of bottles of water at the airport or wherever. And now I haven't had gotten a cup of coffee at a coffee. shop. And if I had, I actually used my Yeti coffee mug and ask them to fill it. So all the paper and styrofoam you save, and I'm not, I've never been, you know, one that, that paid a lot of attention to that stuff. But that's an impact that we talked about with with regard to our consumption and what we do. And it's just all of these new trains of thought and ideas of thinking of things, we didn't really pay attention to a really, it's kind of interesting when you think about it, like, if you can find one factoid of your life of something you did pre COVID, that you're improving yourself upon post COVID. So like I say, the improved carbon footprint of my not wasting, and using, you know, Yeti bottles and all that stuff. It's pretty interesting stuff that I never considered before. So there's a lot of positive that can come out of all of that we've dealt with the last eight months.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Now, that's absolutely true. You know, I will rave about my cooking and friends that only even if I talk about cooking, they kind of tongue in cheek. But you know, never before have I gone to the grocery store and actually looked at labels. To pay attention to not only what I'm fixing to what I'm eating, because not that I ate out a lot or eat out a lot now, but for lunch, you know, typically go out and pick something up. But now everything has to be here in my kitchen. Now, that's, you know, that in itself just sometimes gives me heart palpitations, but that's okay. But it's forced me to do something that I haven't been comfortable doing or haven't wanted to do. You know, and that's a whole new concept of, Hey, I got to do some things I didn't always want to do, but now have to figure out how I can do them. Because that's just the way my life is going to be. And that was kind of a rude awakening Josh, that was you know, I've worked all my life. Being domestic is just not in my DNA. So here I am sitting at home and, and I'm thinking, oh my god, I could I can't write my name in dust. I'm gonna have to do something here.

Josh Peach  
Yeah, it's wild. And like I say, I've been home and look at my, everybody gives me a hard time. But my beard The last time I shaved was March 11. You know, I have I, this is the longest I've been home, I've actually been home this year more consistently than the total number of days previous one and a half years, you know, and it's like, wow. You know, in one year, the difference is just amazing. And the things that I've missed out here and the things that I get to do, and the projects and figuring out how to become more domesticated myself because, you know, it's a lot that goes on that I missed out on. I gotta tell you, this has been this has been great I am, I really like to say you've got so much as far as you know, I look at this, it's like the first step is the hardest, why change management can be challenging, who's on first pushing the reset button, you've got a whole bunch of incredible talk topics. That that I want to have a couple more episodes with you. If you're good with that. I think it'll, it'll free up. It'll free up, putting pressure on, on our guests that are out doing tireless work with their staff and their teams getting things done, especially probably going into what's looking like some form of a second wave in different parts of the country. We're getting ready for a next stage lockdown up here in Boston, effective Friday, with some new regulations and rules and other parts of the country are having some challenges. So I think we'll make this like a weekly thing for the next three or four weeks, I think you and I just come on here and have a talk session on on business life or whatever strikes our fancy and see how it goes.

Mary Beth Ormiston  
I think that sounds like a great idea. I'll enjoy that. 

Josh Peach  
Wonderful, wonderful. Well, listen, if anybody wants to get ahold of you talk to you to touch base with you share a story with you. How do they do that? How do they get ahold of you?

Mary Beth Ormiston  
Oh, my email address is probably the best and that's mbormiston@gmail.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, you know, drop me a note and I'd be more than glad to catch up and chit chat with you and and hopefully learn some new things from people that would reach out so please, you know, reach out to me.

Josh Peach  
Awesome. Well, I'm glad you reached out to me and offered to come on if if interested you definitely were music to my ears when I when I got that email and we got to chat and look forward to a couple more episodes and that will do it for episode 127. For those of you out there that are feeling a little bit of what Mary Beth and I talked about, we sometimes feel or our clients are sometimes feeling, realize you're not alone. And the first thing I'd say is take a breath, try to take a breath and just get back a little bit center and realize that this thing's, our whole life's all out of our control. It's just people are telling us that makes it that much more frustrating but take a breath, be patient, and as Mary Beth pointed out, so perfectly, be kind. That's the most important thing. If we can be kind through all of this, we can be kind through anything. And just stay safe out there to all our listeners that are in the trenches every day. We appreciate you. We're beside you. And I look forward to talking to you real soon with my my guest for the future, Mary Beth. So take it easy everybody. Thanks for listening to the Operate Intelligently Podcast produced by Dude Solutions. You can reach us by emailing dspodcast@dudesolutions.com or check us out on the web at dudesolutions.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai